Handbag Designer 101: The Stories Behind Handbag Designers, Brands, and Industry Icons

Elyce Arons from Crafting Kate Spade to Launching Frances Valentine | Emily Blumenthal & Elyce Arons

• Emily Blumenthal • Season 1

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✨ A re-release of one of our favorite episodes! Step into the heart of New York’s fashion legacy with Elyce Arons, co-founder of Kate Spade and Frances Valentine, as she shares the remarkable story behind one of the most iconic handbag brands of all time. 👜💫 From rural Kansas roots to building a global fashion empire alongside her best friend, the late Katie Brosnahan (aka Kate Spade), this episode is a love letter to friendship, creativity, and fearless entrepreneurship.

🎨 Elyce brings us behind the seams—where construction paper mockups, vintage flea market treasures, and unwavering vision laid the foundation for a brand that redefined handbag design. From building Kate Spade from scratch to honoring Kate’s legacy with Frances Valentine, this is a powerful journey of reinvention and staying true to what matters most. 💖🧵

💡 Key Takeaways
 🔹 Start with Heart: How $35k and a bold idea became a household name.
🔹 Vintage Vibes, Modern Magic: Turning old-school inspiration into timeless design.
🔹 Legacy & Love: Creating the next chapter with purpose, passion, and friendship.

🎧 Tune in for an inside look at how two best friends changed the way the world carries style—one bag at a time.

#HandbagDesigner101 #KateSpade #FrancesValentine #FemaleFounders #FashionIcons #BehindTheBag #EntrepreneurLife #StyleWithSubstance

👤 Our Guest: Elyce Arons is the CEO and co-founder of Frances Valentine and one of the original creative forces behind Kate Spade. Her journey is proof that great design, meaningful partnerships, and staying true to your vision never go out of style.

Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily also teaches entrepreneurship at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is dedicated to celebrating creativity, craftsmanship, and the art of building iconic handbag brands.

Find Handbag Designer 101 Merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com. 

Buy Emily’s Books: “Handbag Designer 101” & “

Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner

TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdesigner

Speaker 1:

And she pulled one of the labels and she put it on the outside, you know, half an inch underneath the seam, and we started sewing. And we had to sew all the labels on that night and I swear our fingers were bleeding, but it was just. You know, it was one of those. Did you hand sew or use a machine? Oh yes, we hand sewed. We didn't have a machine at her apartment. All of the samples have been done, you know, by a manufacturer, by a sample maker. So yes, we did it by hand.

Speaker 2:

Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the podcast with your host, emily Blumenthal, handbag industry expert and the handbag fairy godmother. Each week we uncover the stories behind the handbags we love, from the iconic brands and top designers to the creativity, craftsmanship and culture that define the handbag world. Whether you're a designer, collector or simply passionate about handbags, this is your front row seat to it all. Elise Ahrens, welcome to Handbag Designer 101 on the podcast. As I said before fangirling out beyond, I am a huge Frances Valentine fan. I love a print. Don't know if you knew that, but obviously the legacy of what you've done for handbags is unwavering. But if you're cool with starting from the beginning, beginning that would be great. If you're cool with that, absolutely. So you are originally from Kansas. Yes, what's your story with that? You're not there anymore.

Speaker 1:

A very unlikely beginning. So I am the youngest of four daughters who grew up on a farm in Kansas, and my mother was an artist from the East Coast and created fashion ads for the local newspapers, among other things.

Speaker 2:

Do you remember her doing that?

Speaker 1:

Oh, yes, absolutely, and she would create ads all the time and she took a subscription to Women's Wear Daily and somehow I think I just picked all that up and I loved fashion from an early age. We would go my sisters and I would go vintage shopping Back then. It was great because there was so many good things that you could buy hand beaded things and, you know, pick them up for a dollar. So I graduated from high school, went on to college at the University of Kansas, and it was there that I met my best friend for life, katie Brosnahan, and we had always planned on having a business together. We were both majoring in journalism, mostly because of a love of Mary Tyler Moore and the Mary Tyler Moore Show growing up, and so once we graduated I moved to New York.

Speaker 2:

Can I ask you a question before I start? Yes, so I teach. I moved to New York. Can I ask you a question before I'll start? So I teach. I teach at FIT and the one thing I do is at the beginning of the semester. Part of my list is asking students what number child they are. So you know I have three kids. The difference or the level of not interest but effort with kid number three is like kibble on the floor compared to kid number one. You know like you'll be fine versus like we're going to do this You're going to do. Do you find like? Is your oldest sister a doctor, lawyer, like very responsible person?

Speaker 1:

color in the lines my oldest sister is a is a teacher, and now it's a teacher. Yes, yes, middle sister was a ballet dancer, moved to New York, which is how I even came up to visit and moved up here, fell in love with New York City and I just thought, wow, everyone is so well dressed and good looking and I want to live there and it just. You know, when I came to visit at 14, it was the top of the world and I thought you were in high school the first time you went to New York.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's quite's quite the defining moment, isn't it? It is when you see things that you, you know, you go to New York, you put on your coolest clothes and then you go there and you're like I am so uncool comparatively to the random person on the street, you know, like it's a game changer, Like here you have Women's Wear Daily, and then you see it in real life, it, and then you see it in real life, it's like oh, oh damn.

Speaker 1:

Look at that, exactly, exactly. And I, just I, fell in love with New York and knew I wanted to, you know, move as soon as I graduated from college, which I did.

Speaker 2:

Luckily I did. Did you apply to any schools in New York or it was understood you were staying in Kansas?

Speaker 1:

No, no, I had only applied to a couple of schools it was so different back then and I applied to University of Kansas. It was a beautiful campus and very close to home and really easy.

Speaker 2:

It was, you know, three hour drive from home. So, oh, so you drove to college and said I and here you go, and that's it, and drove to your dorm by yourself, and that was it.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, Exactly. And Katie, once we graduated, we had planned on going to Europe together. And I said, Katie, I've got twenty five hundred dollars saved and I can either move to New York with that money or go to Europe with you. And so she went to Europe. I moved to New York. Did you live with your sister? I did for a couple of months and then I got my own apartment and Katie came back from Europe, you know hysterical, at JFK airport, saying she had $5 left and she didn't know if I was going to get home. But I said, just cut. I waited for her on the stoop. I was like get in a taxi, come here and move in with me.

Speaker 2:

On TV cab.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, exactly. She moved in with me, and then you know the rest. We both got jobs in fashion and in marketing for various fashion companies.

Speaker 2:

Katie got a job at Mademoiselle as an assistant, and you know we kept hard jobs to get, though like I know you've told the story stories so many times. But like to get into the nitty gritty, like getting a job in fashion is not easy. It is like everything you've done has not been easy and you know, I know it's been many, many years since. But like you show up from Kansas in New York hire me in a fashion magazine, like that does not just happen.

Speaker 1:

Like a friend of my cousins who worked at Elle magazine, which is I was just dying. I would have loved to work there. She had said to me you know, try to go to this one temporary agency called Career Blazers, because Condé Nast uses them for everybody. So that's what I did and I got sent everywhere. Great great opportunities, by the way, uses them for everybody. So that's what I did and I got sent everywhere. Great great opportunities, by the way.

Speaker 1:

At MasterCard, visa, in their marketing department, at just a lot of different cool companies, but not to a fashion magazine, of course. Katie, the day she gets back, got a job like that, madame Azelle, on her first day and got the job. You know what we both wanted to work. So I was happy for her that she got that job. And on top of that, you know my first job, I was making more money than she was. That was. It was helpful to both of us. She had the fashion connection and eventually I started working at different fashion companies in marketing, just because I'd had other marketing jobs before. Because it takes time to get there. I don't know if temp agencies still are viable anymore, you have me.

Speaker 1:

But I know they still exist. But I just I don't know if that's the entree in or Right. It's difficult. You kind of have to know people. We at Frances Valentine do a lot of college tours, so if a fashion group is coming to New York, we'll host anywhere from 10 to 40 students up here and everybody in the whole company stands up in front of that group and tells them where they went to college and what they do at our company. That's spectacular, and I never had that opportunity. I never knew about all of the different jobs that were available in the fashion business. There are a lot of them and there are different skills for each and just. You know a natural inclination to be able to be good at something, and so we really try and mentor as many people as we can every single year with the groups that come to visit us.

Speaker 2:

So I'm just like like I feel like you know, I listen to other podcasts and I hear the host like, ah, you know, they're like jumping out of their skin. So in my book I quote how, and the wild thing about the Kate Spade brand is and this is much like what happened with Rebecca Minkoff, because there are very few designers that had a ripple effect amongst the sample making industry in New York when I started my handbag line clearly not as prolific the one hook was that every manufacturer and every sample maker said we were Kate Spades, we did this for Kate Spades. Every single one said that I can't, I joke you not. Yeah, we did this sample and I was like, oh yeah, which silhouette? What color? Uh-huh, was it the one? Because the one without the zipper, that one was the first one. So which one was it? Let's talk.

Speaker 1:

Well, strangely enough, when we started in New York, we had one manufacturer here right in New York and we moved into the same building where he was on West 29th Street. I knew who that was he's retired now, but what a lovely man. So he couldn't handle all of our work, so we had to find other ones and in the end we had about five different manufacturers in New York, both in Manhattan and the Bronx and Brooklyn, and I just remember taking the subway out to go check on production and pick up bags. Lucky you it was. You know it was a different time. It was like New York was grittier and a little scarier.

Speaker 2:

Yep, and a Garmento offspring. So my father was a converter. So I grew up like you know, grew up we'd take the, we'd drive to Port Authority and then walk all the way to the Garmin Center and my mom would get my dad coffee and then he would walk ahead because he was a fast walker and we'd see the drums and fabric and understanding what gray goods were. That gray is spelled G-R-I-E-G-E. You know the whole thing. And then, yeah, and it's funny, I'd never heard so much profanity until I'd walked into their office and I was like, oh, he curses, he curses a lot. I did not know that. So who knew?

Speaker 2:

But the one thing I learned was because and this is one of the things I practice, what I preach so many designers and I think the reason why so many people go into handbags is that there are the least barriers to entry in terms of any classification within fashion, right, apparel, it's very different because at the end of the day, it is a bag and you can teach yourself or learn at least the rudimentary basics and doing your bags out of construction paper, which was in the papers in all her stories. So that's what I did and I have that in my book and saying like, if you don't know how, get the nicest construction paper, get some oak tag backing. Get like, do it the basics, because that's what was done with Kate Spade. Were you part of that whole narrative of like on your hands and he's cutting out construction paper Because this is, this is the, this is the meat that I don't think anybody knows. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1:

So we all kind of did everything together. When we first decided to start a business and I have to give credit where credit's due it was Andy Spade's idea, katie's husband. They weren't married at the time and Katie and I had always wanted to have a business together. When we were in college, we just didn't have any idea what it would be. And so, after many years of working in New York probably about eight where we were both working, we were close to 30.

Speaker 1:

At this point, right, right, andy, andy and Katie approached me and said we know what business you guys are going to have and it's handbags. And it's because Katie had, as an accessories editor, had realized there was a real void in the market and there were no chic, simple American design bags. And I knew it was going to be a hit right off the bat. So I quit my job, started immediately, immediately quit your job. I quit my job. It was, this was 93, 1993. Yep, and was that?

Speaker 2:

terrifying, were you like oh screw it.

Speaker 1:

You know, I was young, I had no other responsibilities, no children, no pet. No, I had no anything responsible for except my student loan payments, and by that time I had amassed some money in a 401k and I thought that's how I'll pay my rent and eat for the next year. You used your 401k. I did, I did.

Speaker 2:

What did your parents say about that? Or you did not tell them that part.

Speaker 1:

You know, I didn't even ask. You know, I was the last of four, so they were like whatever, I'm more worried about me than, I think, my other sisters, but you know, of course, parents are always nervous.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure they just didn't tell me at the time. Wow, so she kept her day job, correct? No, she had left her job. So he was the only one who was still working?

Speaker 1:

Andy was working. Yes, Andy was still working.

Speaker 2:

And how did Pamela Bell fall into all that?

Speaker 1:

So what's funny is we met Pamela in the summer the summer before, and we showed her some of the bags. She loved them and she said OK, I will. Pamela had owned her own hair accessories business and sold it a couple of years before and made a fortune in that age money to me. But she knew all about production and she knew how to get things done.

Speaker 2:

So and that was but what did you think about her? Did you and Katie? Were you and Katie like at coffee? Like what do you think? Cause? Like that's a lot of people and honestly you know people don't realize when you take on a partnership, you spend more time with them than you will with your family, your real partners, anybody. So to take some rando in, like okay, so she did, well, all right, what do you think? Like the two of you or the three of you have a sit down like should we let her in? Should we get what was the thought? Because to take that new person in is a big deal.

Speaker 1:

I think we all felt that we needed the skill sets of all of us, and Andy had to keep his job, so he was in charge of all the branding and marketing. I mean, we couldn't afford to pay for it then, but the whole tone of the brand Andy worked on and he didn't have to be there in order to do that. So it was the three of us and Pamela had all this production experience and really knew how to get things done, knew how to buy materials and all of those things.

Speaker 2:

Were the two of you like. Oh, ok, sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. We were excited about the idea and you know, pamela, that's a missing link. Yeah, it was great because I could do all the sales and marketing, pamela could do all the production and Katie worked on the design. So it really I mean we all honest to God for the first three years, we all did everything.

Speaker 1:

We were all steaming and packing boxes together, Right. But you know, in the end we all kind of moved into our own areas and oversaw those areas, Right. But you know, Pamela and I the first year and a half got in a lot of beefs together.

Speaker 2:

That, see, and then so was Katie, like the middleman, like okay, I see where she's coming from.

Speaker 1:

For sure, because Pamela and I, we both see what we needed, what needed to get done, but we disagree on how to get it done. And you know, in the end she's a fantastic businesswoman and I loved working with her and we're still very, very good friends today. But you need to have those early, early squabbles and discussions because you'll have the same page in the end.

Speaker 2:

So now and then. I know the story of that fateful trade show. I think it may have been Accessory Circuit, where the label went from inside to outside. So the Accessory Circuit used to, and they've since folded it three different times. It's now once again part of coterie To get into accessory circuit. Back in the day was so like are we going to make it? Are we going to make it? Are we going to make it? Get that okay? I mean, when I first got in, I had eight samples. I didn't, I wasn't even ready, but I was like screw this, I got in, I'm going to do it, I don't give a crap. Was that like OK, yeah, we finally have the samples. They're finally what we think they're going to be. How did you come to the conclusion? And were the labels even, like you know, camera ready per se?

Speaker 1:

It was the night before the show and the whole idea was to use men's shirting labels for the outside of the bag, which is how the original label looked, and it was the same material as a men's shirting label with the tacking on the four corners. And the night before we're steaming all the bags and getting ready to go, we were at Bikini's apartment and she just said it needs something else because our bags were very simple. We had no hardware. It was just that wasn't our thing.

Speaker 2:

And it wasn't leather.

Speaker 1:

She said it needs somewhere for the eye to go.

Speaker 2:

Well, it wasn't leather, because we couldn't afford leather at the time, honestly.

Speaker 1:

But what were they? Just what they were? Oh, they were nylon bags that you know, the the ones that that you're talking about, where we really because there was no grain to you know no pattern what he was looking at she said it needs somewhere for the eye to go and she pulled one of the labels and she put it on the outside, you know, half an inch underneath the seam, and we started sewing and we had to sew all the labels on that night and I swear our fingers were bleeding, but it was just. You know, it was one of those. Did you hand sew or use a machine? Oh, yes, we hand sewed. We didn't have a machine at her apartment. All of the samples have been done, you know, by a manufacturer, by a sample maker.

Speaker 2:

So, yes, we did it by hand. Were you guys critical of each other like that sloppy stitching? Because I know how I'd be and my attention to detail isn't as good as other people being like do it again.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and some of them we had to glue on just because we couldn't get through the material and the lining, and you know some, we had backing in between too to give the bag shape, so we couldn't.

Speaker 2:

Do you think that was your unique selling point? That was your USP? I do, I do.

Speaker 1:

I think it was a stroke of brilliance that really turned these handbags into a brand and we got to the show. We were in the worst place, way in the back by the bathroom. By the hot dog stand, yeah, next to the hot dog stand In the back of the Javits. And I know exactly. And Katie was so upset I just remember trying to talk her Talk to Ledge.

Speaker 1:

Yes, she just kept saying we're going to do any business here. So we're doing the show and several stores walk by and you know, give us, you know great marks, et cetera, took a line sheet and then Katie said I'm going to walk around, I have a lot of friends. She knew a lot of people there because she'd been an editor and she'd always attended those shows. So she walked away and went to meet with a couple of people she knew and just then Barney's walks out and they're and I'm looking and I'm like who are these well-dressed people? Wow, and they loved the bags and they took notes and I said hello, got their card, the whole thing, and the second they walked away. Katie walked back up and I said Barney's just walked up and she's like no way, of course, the one time I leave.

Speaker 2:

during this whole show Did she go chase them down?

Speaker 1:

No, they were gone by then and they could be elusive at those shows, as you know.

Speaker 2:

That's when the badges had colors that you know that buyers were one color, press were other. Right, Miss Elaine? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they moved through those shows really fast.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I remember that. And then so cut to. A few hours later she sees a friend down at the end of the you know show and she said I'm just going to go say hi, I'll be right back. Sharivari walks up and, for listeners who don't know, sharivari was the coolest small group of specialty stores in New York. I think they had three or five stores at that time and they were just so chic. And Sharivari walks up and said oh, absolutely, we can put these in all stores. We love them. Got their card, they took a line sheet.

Speaker 1:

Katie walked back up after they left and she was like I guess I'm the lucky I just have to leave. Just leave Right, go away. So we, you know, we left the show. We finished with the show and I look over to her in the cab. I'm all smiling and I see this worried look on her face and I said what's wrong? And she said I don't even know if we got enough orders to pay for the show. And I said but this is how you start, like, this is the beginning. And of course, everything worked out great. Orders started to flood in and we moved offices and got a new space and things really started to happen after that. Things really started to happen after that.

Speaker 2:

Can I ask you a question now? Sure, okay, so there's four of you at this point. Right, there's Katie, andy, pamela and you. Out of curiosity, how were you able to and this is so trite of a question handling your name not being part of it, because that is a difficult pill to swallow, or were you?

Speaker 1:

like I don't care. Well, you know, katie had always said it's the four of us. Kate Spade is the four of us because she wasn't Kate Spade and Andy was Kate Spade. It was his last name and it just. It was so catchy.

Speaker 2:

It is catchy. I mean obviously catchy. And honestly, you know it was there. Did you balance other names?

Speaker 1:

No, there was an original name called Alex Noel and that was Katie and our other friend, also named Pamela. When I was out of town and I said you have to find another partner, I can't do this yet. And I moved back six months later and then did it with them, but the name started as Alex Noel and then we changed it to Kate Spade. But it was really Andy's brainchild and using their names did not bother me at all because it sounded so good. And Katie said I will never be Kate Spade, it's the four of us Cut to.

Speaker 1:

You know, we win the CFDA award and she wins it for best new accessories designer. She became Kate Spade and, whether you liked it or not, I mean she was the most shy person in the world, the funniest but most shy and private person. So for her, that was something I don't know if she was prepared for or not, but she handled it really beautifully, yeah, and learned how to speak in front of people and get better as she moved on. I don't know if she ever got more comfortable with it, but she got much better at it and she was, you know, so good at the social part of it, right, so friendly, and she becomes everyone's best friend, yep, and you really feel that about her. You really do.

Speaker 2:

She was really short too. She was tiny, wasn't she?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I used to call her the bird because she was really, but she was tiny but mighty.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, big presence. You see her and then you're like, oh my God. I remember I saw her at an event and I was waiting to talk to her and then I was trying to be polite and then she left and I was was like, oh damn, there goes my window Same day. If you ever wanted to start a handbag brand and didn't know where to start, this is for you. If you had dreams of becoming a handbag designer but aren't trained in design, this is for you. If you have a handbag brand and need strategy and direction, this is for you. I'm Emily Blumenthal, handbag designer expert and handbag fairy godmother, and this is the Handbag Designer 101 Masterclass. Over the next 10 classes, I will break down everything you need to know to make, manufacture and market a handbag brand. Broken down to ensure that you will not only skip steps in the handbag building process, but also to save money to avoid the learning curve of costly mistakes.

Speaker 2:

For the past 20 years, I've been teaching at the top fashion universities in New York City, wrote the Handbag Designer Bible, founded the Handbag Awards and created the only Handbag Designer Podcast. I'm going to show you like I have countless brands to create in this in-depth course, from sketch to sample, to sale. Whether you're just starting out and don't even know where to start or begin, or if you had a brand and need some strategic direction, the Handbag Designer 101 Masterclass is just for you. So let's get started and you'll be the creator of the next it Bag. Join me, emily Blumenthal, in the Handbag Designer 101 Masterclass. So be sure to sign up at emilyblumenthalcom slash masterclass and type in the code PODCAST to get 10% off your masterclass today. And the two of them, I remember. They're both really short and I said that's wild because you just assume the aura of who she is and her presence.

Speaker 1:

You know what's funny? I never have thought of them as short and they've been my two best friends for, you know my God, because we're 18 years old, because of their personalities.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly so the brand. You know the four of you, which is so interesting that, organically, each person took its own role within recognizing you know what are the four P's of the company, and it was like each one of you captured a P right. How were you able to? You know matrix and all this stuff? People didn't do that back then. There wasn't any matrix to analyze, at least at the way that they have now. How are you able to recognize and take into consideration the needs and the wants of what your customer was and evolve the product? Like, how were the four of you like okay, she needs a slip pocket, she needs a zipper. How were you guys able to like grow the brand? Because at first it all starts with one cool, really cool bag.

Speaker 1:

Right, Well, I think it's because we were consumers ourselves of exactly those products and we knew what we wanted. And when you carry those things every single day, you know what's missing. A zipper pocket inside is missing. Or, if you want to make the first baby bag, pamela was having children before the rest of us. She knew exactly what should have been in a baby bag. So I think us being the ultimate consumers of those products, made all the difference in the world.

Speaker 2:

And it's such a downside to so many brands is that they don't. I always say you have to take your bag for a test drive, not just once, not just twice, but you need to keep wearing it.

Speaker 1:

Right, and we do that at Francis Valentine. He wear tests every single thing and, you know, try and get everything corrected before we go to production with it, just because it's important, you know.

Speaker 2:

You got to do it. Names on it? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:

Forever, oh that. So I also think Andy had the vantage point of not being there every day and being able to see things from the outside. So you know, we were lucky enough to have all perspectives that really mattered.

Speaker 2:

Was it weird to handle fast growth Like how did you because that's again, that's the biggest best blessing curse all packaged into one Like shit. What do we do? What do we do now?

Speaker 1:

Right, I guess you could say it's weird. We were just running constantly. The business was our lives 24-7. We were there till 1030 at night and I was back there at 730 in the morning and it was our first child and all we did was that and I loved it. It was great, you know. And all we did was that and I loved it. It was great, you know. It was kind of a dream come true.

Speaker 2:

And then you were only bags. And then what made you guys realize? All right, this is a lifestyle brand, this isn't just a handbag brand. What was that turning point moment?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, I think part of it was just sort of how we live and stationery was one of those things that was. Stationery was the first thing that came to us Right, we all write personal notes and we had a lot of companies saying this would be a natural progression for you to go into stationery. And we were friendly with the folks who we eventually signed with and because we each used to write a lot of personal notes, it seemed like a really natural, easy thing to do. So stationery and then shoes Was that your first license.

Speaker 2:

The stationery was the first license. Yes, was that a big deal to hand over your name to somebody?

Speaker 1:

Yes, well, you have total control over all the creative and the paper stock, like every single little detail you have to approve before it gets produced and every account that's opened, everything. So it's. It is a lot more work but you know, in the end licensing is such a great thing because if you find the right partners who want to uphold, you know, the same aesthetic and quality, it can be a huge business for you, which is great. And we had really great partners with Schwartz and Benjamin for shoes all those years. And then we moved into a lot of other categories fragrance and beauty, tabletop bedding. There were a lot of licensed products, which was really fun. There were a lot of licensed products, which was really fun.

Speaker 2:

But you know, by this point it's the four of you plus Plus. You have now new people, you have to hire, you have to fire, you've got new overhead, you've got, you know, offices that now need to look the part and the expenses are growing and growing. And was it hard for the four of you to start relinquishing control? Because that's it. That's a downside of a lot of brands when they grow so quickly, is that? You know, the plus is that they want their hand in everything, but the minus is that they need their hand in everything Right, so it's like that's a gentle balance.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if we ever did relinquish control, because we all were overseeing our various areas and as we hired more people, all the folks that had started with us would move up with us and they would have, because they knew exactly what to do. They could oversee certain areas without anyone watching over them or telling them what to do. So it grew very organically and naturally. I would interview everyone who came through the company, because one of our philosophies was we wanted to hire they had to be talented, of course, but really polite, gracious people, and it's a philosophy that we've even carried forward at Francis Valentine. And it's because you're going to work every day. You're working there at least eight hours a day, all day, all week, and you want to be with nice people Do you ever.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and it really matters, and so that was one of our mantras. So it's why I personally interviewed everybody who was hired at the company. You know, once we started opening retail stores, that became more difficult, and Zoom was terrifying.

Speaker 2:

Like was that scary? Like okay, we have our first store. I remember the store, I remember the store opening. Was it the four of you you know the night before? Oh gosh, no, we were so excited.

Speaker 1:

We loved it. It was amazing. It was the first time we could showcase our products the way we wanted it done, Because back then it was really just wholesale. E-commerce wasn't a thing and it was either wholesale or open your own retail store. So we were really excited to open.

Speaker 2:

So the brand's growing. It's still the four of you, you know. You get to a point. What was the moment where you guys said, all right, we're hitting a wall. I think we've done everything we can do, you know, because it was sold once, or percentage of the company was sold once, that I remembered thinking like why would they want to do that if it's something that is so ours, Like it's us? Why did that all come to pass?

Speaker 1:

So that was in 1999. We had a lot of bankers and strategic fashion companies really interested in buying the company, like they would just come out of the woodwork and approach us, and the more we started talking about it we thought wouldn't it be great to partner with somebody who's done this before to really help us grow and we can take our names off of the leases? We can really be able to focus on the business instead of financing Sleep a little better.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, exactly, and, you know, Sleep a little better. Right, right, exactly. So Neiman Marcus came up in that discussion and they were interested in putting together a small group of companies that they would invest in and grow, you know, within the Neiman Marcus group. So that was really interesting to us because they were really, you know, one of the best department stores in the world and they were a good partner to us on the wholesale side. So we met with them it was the Smith family in Boston. We really liked them and thought this is the right partner for us and at that point they bought 56% of the business.

Speaker 2:

Was that scary?

Speaker 1:

It's funny, harvard even did a case study on Kate Spade at that time.

Speaker 2:

I have that case study. Actually I can send it to you. I have it down there. I've got one. It's in my studio.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, Might as well copy on it, no they flew us up to Boston to present to all the students. It was really fun, it was fascinating, wow, really great thing to do. But in any case, the whole question was why would you do this? And I feel like we were at a time in our lives you know it was we were all starting to have kids Seven years later, more or less after you started.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, and you know it was. We felt like it was the right partner and a really good opportunity, and so cut to. Seven years later we sold the balance of it to Neiman Marcus, so it was about 13 years that we had the business, but it's not that long in the grand scheme of companies?

Speaker 1:

It's not, but when we got to that age, it kind of felt like a long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all still loved it, but we were all having children and there were some other things in our lives that were becoming as important as the business, or more important, and I had just had my third child the day we closed, on the day of Marcus, and Katie had had Bea a few months before. So it just felt like this is great, this is time.

Speaker 2:

And you were in the hospital and it closed.

Speaker 1:

No, I wasn't. I had the baby on. I don't know. We were negotiating the deal points on Thursday. I had the baby on Friday and we closed. I was back at the office on Monday, I think.

Speaker 2:

That tracks. But isn't that crazy. It's your third one. It's okay, trust me, I get it. You were like bringing her in, like whatever, just to get out the baby.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's your third one, so it's just different than having the first. Oh yeah, it's your third one, so it's just different than having the first. Oh yeah, but you know, it felt like the time was right in all of our lives to do it. Andy was starting his new branding company, partners, in Spade. Pamela had some things that she wanted to do differently and you know, katie and I were just, we were sort of like thrilled to not have to work, be able to be moms, right so and that only lasted, I guess, about seven or eight years, and then we started Francis Valentine.

Speaker 2:

Did you guys have a non-compete when you left we?

Speaker 1:

did, we did. It was two years, but it went by so fast.

Speaker 2:

Was that one of those things that you guys were like I don't give a crap. Like you take that non-compete, I'm fine, Like I need a break. I don't want to do this. Yeah, crap, Like you take that non-compete.

Speaker 1:

I'm fine. Like I need a break. I don't want to do this. We were. We were totally fine and it felt reasonable. You know, I think it's it's a rather short period for a company, especially when one of them is the namesake, but that's what we all agreed to. I'll tell you after we sold, in December of 2006, and we had agreed to work for another six months, so we worked until June, that of 2007. And we had a great summer. It was so fun. All of our families got together. We had a blast that I got back in September. I was dropping my kids off at school.

Speaker 2:

You were like now.

Speaker 1:

I walked out of the school and I was like, oh my God, I don't have a place to go, I don't have an office to go to, no one's waiting for me, nothing. And my identity was so wrapped up in owning a business that I didn't know what to do with myself. And it was a little bit. I got a little bit blue for a couple of months and I remember putting on my headphones and doing a walk run from, you know, greenwich Village up to the Upper East Side where Katie lived, and we'd go walk the park every day and hang out and talk.

Speaker 2:

Because you didn't know what else to do.

Speaker 1:

I didn't know what else to do. Finally, I started filling my days with. I took cooking classes, I took tennis lessons, and then, of course, you get involved in your kids' schools and then you just get pulled in to do all sorts of things. So I got really involved in my children's school, both as PA president and board chair and raising money, which was great. That was a whole different kind of experience and I learned so much doing all of those things and I'm grateful to have had that time to do it. That's golden times, it is.

Speaker 2:

Get that time back.

Speaker 1:

Right, exactly, and I got to spend time at the school with my kids too, so that was really great. But, you know, we started to get an itch to get back into the business and we you know, katie and I both missed creating things and making things, and so I guess it was in 2013,. We were out to dinner celebrating Pamela's birthday, I think and we started talking about a business again.

Speaker 2:

Was Pamela. Like I'm good girls, I'm good you do Well.

Speaker 1:

Pamela had started her own company called Prink Shop and she was debating doing this with us and just said you know, I'm so busy with my own business I, you know I'll let you guys do it.

Speaker 2:

So we started with handbags and shoes and we Did you feel like you had to ask her permission per se.

Speaker 1:

No, it wasn't permission, but we enjoyed we all enjoyed working together. So you know, ultimately it was her choice. I don't think we would have started something without any of the four of us being asked Right. So we started it and in 2014, and Andy Spade was he said if you don't get an office space, if you don't rent an office space, it's just going to kind of keep going along. Katie's never going to do it, but once she knows we have an office space and we're coming, she'll show up.

Speaker 2:

When there's overhead, she'll show up.

Speaker 1:

That's right. So he was absolutely right. So we got an office space in 2014, started working on all the designs and we ended up launching our first collection to the public in 2016, in spring of 2016. And that was handbags and shoes.

Speaker 2:

How did you and I know this, you've been asked this question so many times like talking about your customer, consumers, was it okay? Kate Spade has grown up. This is what she wants. Now Does she have the same? You know, kate Spade and Frances Valentine are 100% not the same brand. I can say that with my discerning eye. But, coming from a namesake brand, how were you able? And was there any trepidation Like what, the how it would be received, like how did you deal with all that?

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, obviously we couldn't use Katie's name because we had sold, had sold the name which should use your name this time well, we actually picked two names that we both loved and they happen to have been katie's family names one from her mother's side, one from her father's side and put them together and that's how francis valentine came about. Thought, let's create this woman who's your best friend, who makes you laugh harder than anybody else, your favorite aunt with the best style. And that's who Frances Valentine is. And it was born out of friendship and at first I felt like, oh my gosh, it's a mouthful, but I was so used to saying Kate Spade, which rolled off the tongue so easily, but it's really seemed to resonate with people and I love the name. I feel like we've evolved from the old days. I mean, think about it, we were 30 years old when we started Kate Spade.

Speaker 2:

That is insane.

Speaker 1:

And when we started Francis Valentine, we were 50. And we're different people, we want different things, you know. We want different things through the brand, and so the word we've always used is is we've evolved.

Speaker 2:

You could say we've grown up. Did you have a question like with the press saying, okay, if Francis Valentine is your best friend, then who was Kate Spade? You know, is Kate Spade like the little sister that went off and did her own thing, like how were you able? You know, kate Spade, you know, is Kate Spade like the little sister that went off and did her own thing, like how were you able?

Speaker 1:

You know Kate Spade. To us when we started it was the big sister and Jack Spade was a little brother.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

So you know, I think the folks that ended up owning Kate Spade have done an amazing job. It's obviously a gigantic corporation.

Speaker 2:

It's a great team now.

Speaker 1:

And they've done a great job growing it. It's a great team now and they've done a great job growing it. You know, I think we are really good at starting brands and nurturing them and making them interesting and providing great quality.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And value. I think part of the formula for what we do is really fantastic design, really great quality, and they're personal pieces. They feel personal to you. Everything we do we try to add a little bit of something Like even on our knit sweaters we have this little XO, and it's because that's how Katie and I had always ended letters XO Elise, xo Katie. And so the XO is part of our branding and we try to add it and I'll tell you if it's not on there, customers seem to get upset.

Speaker 2:

They're like where's the XO? I want it and that's a good defining point, that's a good USP. Were the first bags with Frances Valentine in leather.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Well, we did both. We did fabric and leather. You know, fabric's always been one of those things that we love to use With prints, yeah yeah. And just you know beautiful velvets and you can get these great jewel tone colors that don't, that, aren't, as you know, deep as just a flat color, the velvets and corduroys and like all. There's some really great materials out there to use handbags and I love fabric and color and prints and leather too fabric and color and prints and leather too.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I was just at your sample sale and I just wanted to sit there and just stay and like. There's definitely a point of view that I think you and she have very successfully captured in terms of people who want to stand out, but not in an obnoxious way, not in a look at me, it's. I'm tastefully. Here's my party print. I am a fun person and I think you've had so much history in understanding your customer that this is such an organic progression of what you've done and I don't want to talk about this too much because obviously this is super personal.

Speaker 2:

But was it difficult for you to move on with the brand after Like? Were you at any moment like God, I can't do this without her Because everything you've done is what we go through in life? You know love, loss, move on and who she was and who she is and the mark she's made. You know this is the crap that we all deal with. This is life. It's good, bad and the ugly. So how did you handle this next step of like? What am I supposed to do with the brand that I was always half of?

Speaker 1:

Well, you know.

Speaker 2:

If you don't mind me asking, I just Not at all, of course, I miss her every day, every day.

Speaker 1:

You know, we were sort of at a crossroads because I kind of like, how can we go on without her? And yet I felt I had a responsibility to her family, to the employees of the company, and we all agreed that we were going to move forward and I think, you know Katie would want that. It wasn't, you know, her not being there wasn't about Francis Valentine, and so one of the things that we did it was just, it was one of those things that just happened. You know, katie and I had both been huge vintage shoppers growing up and we continue to be today. I continue to be today.

Speaker 1:

But two of the pieces that were her favorites, one was a caftan she wore on every vacation we took and the other was an embroidered sweater found, you know, 30 years ago in a vintage shop. And we remade those two items, even though we weren't apparel folks. We remade those two items as a tribute to her and they sold out immediately and we reordered them and they sold out again and again and again and again. And people started asking us for all of the things that we styled in our campaigns, which were all my vintage pieces and Katie's vintage pieces. So you know, we started making different items and they continued to sell out and I think people loved the nostalgia and they were sort of vintage pieces, but they were made modern. They were made modern with, you know, zippers and pockets and you know some elastic in the waistband and the special things that make you want to pull something out of your closet and wear it because it's the most comfortable thing in there. And yet it provides confidence to women to have their own individual style. It's the you don't want the look at me, look at me thing, but for women to be able to put their own style together, have it be one of our pieces, combined with other things that they own.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love that she's combining all those pieces together to make it her own. I love that she's combining all those pieces together to make it her own Right, and it makes her happy. And I'll tell you, the vintage pieces that we had collected all those years ago sort of became the fresh start for the company after she was gone and apparel is a huge part of our business now. You know I was saying, oh, we'll never make pants. Well, now we make pants. We'll never make sweaters. Now we make pants, we'll never make sweaters, and now we make sweaters. So all of the product categories really contribute to the whole brand, which is great. So we have apparel and handbags and shoes and jewelry, and then we do a lot of gift items and soft goods as well.

Speaker 2:

Was the first license you did, or this brand isn't licensed yet?

Speaker 1:

We just signed the first license and it'll be a big surprise for next year. We actually did a home license with Annie Selke last year, which was great for bedding, which was fun. I love what they did. They took our embroideries and really went to town, Really really beautiful. We're doing another one with them this summer and then we've got another license that will be launching next fall.

Speaker 2:

Is it stationary?

Speaker 1:

No, I just. It's not out of the question.

Speaker 2:

But it's almost like, based on what you said, that the attraction happens when she's gone. So it's almost, like you know, like going back to that trade show moment where the attention came right when she walked away. I feel like this is her way, and some twisted way of giving back to the brand that, as soon as she left, people were more eyes were on you as a result of trying to find more of her Right, right and you know she's still here, she's still with us every day.

Speaker 1:

I feel that in all the work we do here.

Speaker 2:

Is it interesting now that because I know some of the people have been with you since she was there and now obviously you've employees who've never even known who she was how do you educate them in terms of by the way, she's still half the brand in terms of DNA Right?

Speaker 1:

You know I think they get it the second they start working here and we go through a whole process of them spending time with everybody in the whole company. And you know we have several folks who work with us at Kate Spade who started with us here when we started this. There's a lot of DNA you know from our previous work together and you know it's Francis. Valentine is sort of she's on her own. She's not me, she's not Katie, she's that, she's she is. You know, I don't know she's kind of up here.

Speaker 2:

Have you recognized now that this is not a baby and this is a brand in a business? Have you been able to separate that?

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, I still treat it like a baby, but yes, I know, I know, elise.

Speaker 2:

This has been absolutely fantastic. I am so very grateful for your time and contribution to Handbags, the industry and, most of all, to Handbag Designer 101, the podcast. You've been an absolute gem, much like the ones you put on your clothes and bags. Thank you so much. Thank you, emily, it was lovely to be here. Okay, have a great day. Thank you, bye, bye. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single platform at Handbag Designer. Thanks so much. See you next time.

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Emily Blumenthal

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